California’s EV charging network could use a jolt, a trip down I-5 shows...

[Fred Bloggs]

What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They\'ve got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They\'ve got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point

If it takes 15x as long to charge an EV as it takes to gas up an IC
car, there is going to be a giant real estate problem.

And California is working on making the power grid unreliable too.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 12:30:38 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They\'ve got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point

If it takes 15x as long to charge an EV as it takes to gas up an IC
car, there is going to be a giant real estate problem.

Twaddle. Cars are parked 95% of the time, and most EV\'s get charged relatively slowing from regular mains sockets, not by fast chargers.

> And California is working on making the power grid unreliable too.

The US enthusiasm for privatising natural monopolies is an ideology driven idiocy. The ENRON scandal should have made that clear, but the Gnatguy component in the US electorate is vocal and unwilling to notice evidence that they don\'t like.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Flyguy]

On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 8:55:20 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 12:30:38 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They\'ve got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point

If it takes 15x as long to charge an EV as it takes to gas up an IC
car, there is going to be a giant real estate problem.
Twaddle. Cars are parked 95% of the time, and most EV\'s get charged relatively slowing from regular mains sockets, not by fast chargers.
And California is working on making the power grid unreliable too.
The US enthusiasm for privatising natural monopolies is an ideology driven idiocy. The ENRON scandal should have made that clear, but the Gnatguy component in the US electorate is vocal and unwilling to notice evidence that they don\'t like.

--
Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

The Bozo conveniently ignores that the vast majority of car parking spots DO NOT have any EV charging whatsoever. And people living in apartments MUST rely on public EV charging stations. This is a BIG problem with relatively few EVs - imagine the problem when ALL of the cars are EVs.

Note that Bozo identifies a fictitious person call \"Gnatguy\" who has NEVER posted to SED.

 

[whit3rd]

On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 9:16:00 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

> ...the vast majority of car parking spots DO NOT have any EV charging whatsoever.

So? They don\'t have gas pumps either.
Most parking events are not for the purpose of car charging.

>And people living in apartments MUST rely on public EV charging stations.

.... also public roads and sidewalks and police and... all the services an apartment
dweller needs, why would charging stations be the important one?

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 2:16:00 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 8:55:20 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 12:30:38 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They\'ve got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point

If it takes 15x as long to charge an EV as it takes to gas up an IC car, there is going to be a giant real estate problem.

Twaddle. Cars are parked 95% of the time, and most EV\'s get charged relatively slowing from regular mains sockets, not by fast chargers.

And California is working on making the power grid unreliable too.

The US enthusiasm for privatising natural monopolies is an ideology driven idiocy. The ENRON scandal should have made that clear, but the Gnatguy component in the US electorate is vocal and unwilling to notice evidence that they don\'t like.

Bill conveniently ignores that the vast majority of car parking spots DO NOT have any EV charging whatsoever.

Not yet. Those used by EV car owners do tend to get them.

>And people living in apartments MUST rely on public EV charging stations.

I live in an apartment, and at our last owner\'s meeting we did discuss how we were going to provide charging for EV\'s parked in the basement.

We do need smart chargers so the cost of the power fed into the car ends up getting paid for by the car\'s owner. Some of the speaker wanted the information passed back over wifi links, which is nuts when we\'ve have fast data links over mains wiring for decades now

>This is a BIG problem with relatively few EVs - imagine the problem when ALL of the cars are EVs.

By then the problem, such as it is, will have been solved.

> Note that Bill identifies a fictitious person call \"Gnatguy\" who has NEVER posted to SED.

If only he were fictitious. He\'s depressingly real, and easily identifiable. He uses the non-name Bozo quite a lot.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Jeff Layman]

On 23/09/2022 04:55, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 12:30:38 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They\'ve got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point

If it takes 15x as long to charge an EV as it takes to gas up an IC
car, there is going to be a giant real estate problem.

Twaddle. Cars are parked 95% of the time, and most EV\'s get charged relatively slowing from regular mains sockets, not by fast chargers.

But that wasn\'t what the article was about. It was about the EV charging
experience during a 400 mile trip. I assume that sort of distance
wouldn\'t be particularly unusual in the USA or indeed Australia
(although it would be in the UK where I am).

What would have happened if the driver hadn\'t been able to find a
charging point at Interstate 5 at Frazier Mountain Park Road? Even then,
he could only get 9 miles of charge after a 75 minute wait. If he ran
out of petrol with an IC car, he\'d probably be able to get a lift to a
garage and buy a gallon can of petrol and take it back to his vehicle,
which would be enough to get him 30 miles or so to a garage and to fill
up. With an EV, the ironic option would be to get a service vehicle with
a pretty big IC-powered generator in the back, and wait an hour for it
to charge his EV\'s batteries sufficiently to get enough range to reach a
charging station. Or are there EV service vehicles with large batteries
in the back with which to charge the stranded EV vehicle\'s batteries?

--

Jeff

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 5:25:30 PM UTC+10, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 23/09/2022 04:55, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 12:30:38 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They\'ve got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point

If it takes 15x as long to charge an EV as it takes to gas up an IC
car, there is going to be a giant real estate problem.

Twaddle. Cars are parked 95% of the time, and most EV\'s get charged relatively slowing from regular mains sockets, not by fast chargers.

But that wasn\'t what the article was about. It was about the EV charging
experience during a 400 mile trip. I assume that sort of distance
wouldn\'t be particularly unusual in the USA or indeed Australia
(although it would be in the UK where I am).

But John Larkin went on to imagine a giant real estate problem, which is twaddle.

EV charging experience now are teething troubles. More EV\'s will demand - and get - better services.

What would have happened if the driver hadn\'t been able to find a
charging point at Interstate 5 at Frazier Mountain Park Road? Even then,
he could only get 9 miles of charge after a 75 minute wait. If he ran
out of petrol with an IC car, he\'d probably be able to get a lift to a
garage and buy a gallon can of petrol and take it back to his vehicle,
which would be enough to get him 30 miles or so to a garage and to fill
up. With an EV, the ironic option would be to get a service vehicle with
a pretty big IC-powered generator in the back, and wait an hour for it
to charge his EV\'s batteries sufficiently to get enough range to reach a
charging station. Or are there EV service vehicles with large batteries
in the back with which to charge the stranded EV vehicle\'s batteries?

Ed Lee ran into that kind of problem a while back and posted about it here. If I remember rightly he ended up getting winched onto a recovery truck and being driven to the nearest working charger, which wasn\'t cheap, but fairly quick.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2022-09-23, Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 2:16:00 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 8:55:20 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 12:30:38 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They\'ve got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point

If it takes 15x as long to charge an EV as it takes to gas up an IC car, there is going to be a giant real estate problem.

Twaddle. Cars are parked 95% of the time, and most EV\'s get charged relatively slowing from regular mains sockets, not by fast chargers.

And California is working on making the power grid unreliable too.

The US enthusiasm for privatising natural monopolies is an ideology driven idiocy. The ENRON scandal should have made that clear, but the Gnatguy component in the US electorate is vocal and unwilling to notice evidence that they don\'t like.

Bill conveniently ignores that the vast majority of car parking spots DO NOT have any EV charging whatsoever.

Not yet. Those used by EV car owners do tend to get them.

And people living in apartments MUST rely on public EV charging stations.

I live in an apartment, and at our last owner\'s meeting we did discuss how we were going to provide charging for EV\'s parked in the basement.

We do need smart chargers so the cost of the power fed into the car ends up getting paid for by the car\'s owner.

So parking is fixed allocation, or first come first served?

Some of the speaker wanted the information passed back over wifi
links, which is nuts when we\'ve have fast data links over mains
wiring for decades now

passed where?

easy enough to install fibre at the same time as the power wires, but
that\'s like half a solution.

This is a BIG problem with relatively few EVs - imagine the problem when ALL of the cars are EVs.

By then the problem, such as it is, will have been solved.

True that.

Note that Bill identifies a fictitious person call \"Gnatguy\" who has NEVER posted to SED.

If only he were fictitious. He\'s depressingly real, and easily identifiable. He uses the non-name Bozo quite a lot.

--
Jasen.

 

[server]

John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
news:sd6qihhdfcesh1orreokka5nnj8g4fuqpm@4ax.com:

And California is working on making the power grid unreliable too.

And you are still an idiot.

Your whore mother should have worked on properly flushing you down
the toilet, the moment she shat you.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 10:00:55 PM UTC+10, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2022-09-23, Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 2:16:00 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 8:55:20 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 12:30:38 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They\'ve got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point

If it takes 15x as long to charge an EV as it takes to gas up an IC car, there is going to be a giant real estate problem.

Twaddle. Cars are parked 95% of the time, and most EV\'s get charged relatively slowing from regular mains sockets, not by fast chargers.

And California is working on making the power grid unreliable too.

The US enthusiasm for privatising natural monopolies is an ideology driven idiocy. The ENRON scandal should have made that clear, but the Gnatguy component in the US electorate is vocal and unwilling to notice evidence that they don\'t like.

Bill conveniently ignores that the vast majority of car parking spots DO NOT have any EV charging whatsoever.

Not yet. Those used by EV car owners do tend to get them.

And people living in apartments MUST rely on public EV charging stations.

I live in an apartment, and at our last owner\'s meeting we did discuss how we were going to provide charging for EV\'s parked in the basement.

We do need smart chargers so the cost of the power fed into the car ends up getting paid for by the car\'s owner.

So parking is fixed allocation, or first come first served?

Fixed allocation, but a smart charger can work out who owns the car and sort out where the bill goes. The Internet of Things should be able to manage that. Every car in our garage has a transponder that tells the New South Wales toll road system when it has entered and and left a toll road, so that the car owner gets the bill. It could give the smart charger the same information though I doubt that the toll road charging system would want to branch out into handling electricity bills as well.

Some of the speakers wanted the information passed back over wifi links, which is nuts when we\'ve have fast data links over mains wiring for decades now.

passed where?

Onto the web.

> easy enough to install fibre at the same time as the power wires, but that\'s like half a solution.

There\'s fibre to the building anyway.

This is a BIG problem with relatively few EVs - imagine the problem when ALL of the cars are EVs.

By then the problem, such as it is, will have been solved.

True that.

Note that Bill identifies a fictitious person call \"Gnatguy\" who has NEVER posted to SED.

If only he were fictitious. He\'s depressingly real, and easily identifiable. He uses the non-name Bozo quite a lot.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They\'ve got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point

CA is now mandating only heat pumps for residential and commercial
buildings, no more NG for air and water heating.

Politicians can\'t do math.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 1:00:45 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They\'ve got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
CA is now mandating only heat pumps for residential and commercial
buildings, no more NG for air and water heating.

Actually that is a really good move. To me it only makes sense to have all the essential energy consuming loads using a single universal source of supply. Now instead of tens of millions of individual gas burning installations, they can use the NG to power centralized electrical energy generation that gets transmitted over the universal energy grid to power the loads using the single universal energy type, electricity. Open architecture doesn\'t work for something like this, it\'s just plain wasteful and inefficient.

Politicians can\'t do math.

 

[John Walliker]

On Friday, 23 September 2022 at 18:51:30 UTC+1, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 1:00:45 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They\'ve got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
CA is now mandating only heat pumps for residential and commercial
buildings, no more NG for air and water heating.
Actually that is a really good move. To me it only makes sense to have all the essential energy consuming loads using a single universal source of supply. Now instead of tens of millions of individual gas burning installations, they can use the NG to power centralized electrical energy generation that gets transmitted over the universal energy grid to power the loads using the single universal energy type, electricity. Open architecture doesn\'t work for something like this, it\'s just plain wasteful and inefficient.

Politicians can\'t do math.

Its not quite so simple though. Burning gas to generate electricity is not
very efficient due to thermodynamic limitations. If resistive heating is used
then it is much less efficient that burning the gas locally. If heat pumps are used
then it might be more efficient if the temperature differential is small, but
not necessarily in climates where the heat pump needs to work with a large
temperature differential. So it might be a good idea in California, but less so
in many other places.

John

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-4, John Walliker wrote:

On Friday, 23 September 2022 at 18:51:30 UTC+1, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 1:00:45 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They\'ve got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
CA is now mandating only heat pumps for residential and commercial
buildings, no more NG for air and water heating.
Actually that is a really good move. To me it only makes sense to have all the essential energy consuming loads using a single universal source of supply. Now instead of tens of millions of individual gas burning installations, they can use the NG to power centralized electrical energy generation that gets transmitted over the universal energy grid to power the loads using the single universal energy type, electricity. Open architecture doesn\'t work for something like this, it\'s just plain wasteful and inefficient.

Politicians can\'t do math.
Its not quite so simple though. Burning gas to generate electricity is not
very efficient due to thermodynamic limitations.

Right- it does have a place as renewable energy backup power...The technology hasn\'t exactly remained static. The gas turbines they have now burn much cleaner and have much improved efficiency. To listen to them tell it, everything has improved by a factor of two minimum.

If resistive heating is used
then it is much less efficient that burning the gas locally. If heat pumps are used
then it might be more efficient if the temperature differential is small, but
not necessarily in climates where the heat pump needs to work with a large
temperature differential. So it might be a good idea in California, but less so
in many other places.

You\'re working with old mythology about heat pumps and temperature differentials. All that was thrown out the window when variable speed compressor technology came into use. The old single speed technology uses a fixed pressure temperature cycle that is optimum for a narrow range of external conditions, and deviations from those conditions made operating efficiency plummet.. The variable speed technology eliminates the constraint on narrow range of operating conditions, and it maintains efficiency over a wide range of external conditions.

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 10:51:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 1:00:45 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They\'ve got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
CA is now mandating only heat pumps for residential and commercial
buildings, no more NG for air and water heating.

Actually that is a really good move. To me it only makes sense to have all the essential energy consuming loads using a single universal source of supply.

Which they are actively working to destroy.

> Now instead of tens of millions of individual gas burning installations, they can use the NG to power centralized electrical energy generation that gets transmitted over the universal energy grid to power the loads using the single universal energy type, electricity. Open architecture doesn\'t work for something like this, it\'s just plain wasteful and inefficient.

What\'s the efficiency of NG power plants making electricity to run
heat pumps (and resistive heaters when it\'s cold) ?

The politicos are hostile to NG. They want all renewables with battery
storage.

Politicians can\'t do math.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 4:23:59 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 10:51:26 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 1:00:45 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They\'ve got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
CA is now mandating only heat pumps for residential and commercial
buildings, no more NG for air and water heating.

Actually that is a really good move. To me it only makes sense to have all the essential energy consuming loads using a single universal source of supply.
Which they are actively working to destroy.
Now instead of tens of millions of individual gas burning installations, they can use the NG to power centralized electrical energy generation that gets transmitted over the universal energy grid to power the loads using the single universal energy type, electricity. Open architecture doesn\'t work for something like this, it\'s just plain wasteful and inefficient.
What\'s the efficiency of NG power plants making electricity to run
heat pumps (and resistive heaters when it\'s cold) ?

Modern heat pumps shouldn\'t have to run resistive heaters anymore. The heater strip should be standby heating for equipment failure.
The outdoor units use a heater for periodic de-icing but it\'s not much- and they can actually replace that with a hot gas defrost if they haven\'t already.

The old fogeys don\'t think a heater is heating if it\'s not blowing 140oF air out the plenum.

The cheapskates need to upgrade the insulation performance of their homes, and that includes windows and doors.

The politicos are hostile to NG. They want all renewables with battery
storage.


Politicians can\'t do math.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2022-09-23, Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 10:00:55 PM UTC+10, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2022-09-23, Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 2:16:00 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 8:55:20 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 12:30:38 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They\'ve got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point

If it takes 15x as long to charge an EV as it takes to gas up an IC car, there is going to be a giant real estate problem.

Twaddle. Cars are parked 95% of the time, and most EV\'s get charged relatively slowing from regular mains sockets, not by fast chargers.

And California is working on making the power grid unreliable too.

The US enthusiasm for privatising natural monopolies is an ideology driven idiocy. The ENRON scandal should have made that clear, but the Gnatguy component in the US electorate is vocal and unwilling to notice evidence that they don\'t like.

Bill conveniently ignores that the vast majority of car parking spots DO NOT have any EV charging whatsoever.

Not yet. Those used by EV car owners do tend to get them.

And people living in apartments MUST rely on public EV charging stations.

I live in an apartment, and at our last owner\'s meeting we did discuss how we were going to provide charging for EV\'s parked in the basement.

We do need smart chargers so the cost of the power fed into the car ends up getting paid for by the car\'s owner.

So parking is fixed allocation, or first come first served?

Fixed allocation, but a smart charger can work out who owns the car and sort out where the bill goes. The Internet of Things should be able to manage that. Every car in our garage has a transponder that tells the New South Wales toll road system when it has entered and and left a toll road, so that the car owner gets the bill. It could give the smart charger the same information though I doubt that the toll road charging system would want to branch out into handling electricity bills as well.

A power cable cable originating at their energy meter can do that too,
possibly even a remote current transformer if they are using CT meters.

Some of the speakers wanted the information passed back over wifi links, which is nuts when we\'ve have fast data links over mains wiring for decades now.

passed where?

Onto the web.

seems this is going to make their charging more expensive.

easy enough to install fibre at the same time as the power wires, but that\'s like half a solution.

There\'s fibre to the building anyway.

The fibre can go next to power wires in a conduit, SELV signal in a
cat5 can\'t.

--
Jasen.

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Friday, 23 September 2022 at 13:23:59 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
...

What\'s the efficiency of NG power plants making electricity to run
heat pumps (and resistive heaters when it\'s cold) ?

In the region of 60-65% for CCGT power plants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_cycle_power_plant

A normal residential natural gas furnace has an efficiency in the region of 70-80%. Condensing ones can do better.

The politicos are hostile to NG. They want all renewables with battery
storage.


Politicians can\'t do math.

Maybe you don\'t understand the assumptions and goals.

kw

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Friday, 23 September 2022 at 05:00:55 UTC-7, Jasen Betts wrote:
....

We do need smart chargers so the cost of the power fed into the car ends up getting paid for by the car\'s owner.
So parking is fixed allocation, or first come first served?
Some of the speaker wanted the information passed back over wifi
links, which is nuts when we\'ve have fast data links over mains
wiring for decades now
passed where?

The SAE standard for CCS has a method for data to pass from the car to the charging station. It actually does use a Power Line Communication standard although it is carried over one of the J1772 control lines.

From there the billing information goes to the station vendor.

Tesla already worked out those details many years ago so it is automatic from the users point of view - just plug the car in and it charges and the fees are assigned to your account. In Tesla\'s case the fees are viewable from the main display in the car.

Other charging providers are still working on convenient solutions that don\'t involve swiping cards or other activities to initiate charging but over the next couple of years I would expect them to be widespread.

kw